Curse

viper008 · Mar 27, 2006, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chadatog

I really don't understand all the griping. None of the skills are exact copies of another. Heck, V touch and V bite are in two completely different atibute lines. They are just similar skills with the same skill wording. The #'s affected by skill points, the atribute itself, the casting cost, the casting time, and the recharge all vary. Yes it gives you the same ability but they are not exactily the same.

Quoted for the truth

Lt.Crumpet · Mar 27, 2006, 09:37 PM // 21:37

[QUOTE=CKaz]And that's fine.
As we all know nothing gets re-balanced over time through testing and time in GW

QUOTE]

yes, because all those nerfs werent rebalances. please think, honestly.

/notsigned

most of the duped skills are pretty basic skills. if they took them OUT of factions, the game WOULD be unbalanced twards factions only people.

and for the people that are so geeked out over the duped skils: they are the same, and twice on your skillbar. that makes you TWICE AS VULNERABLE to any given counter. 2 exectutioners on ur bar? oh look, thats 1 less energy skill and you just got ur ass handed to you by a soothing images/anyattackslower/lots of other skills.

comon guys, stop ur whining. this is needed. learn to cope.

=HT=Ingram · Mar 27, 2006, 09:59 PM // 21:59

why not just Buy both games then everyone has it... Oh that's right you would rather get something for nothing yet again... go back to wasting your life farming gold to be sold on e-bay and hopefully eventually banned for life from the servers, and leave the gaming to the people that Play the game and support it by Buying the chapters... After the past 50 of 72 hrs I spent playing the Factions Preview all I can say is it is a fantastic Addition to the gaming world. It has something for everyone. and the people bitching are the ones that have been exploiting the game for ages... Hopefully very soon those people will be long EXTINCT from Cantha and banished to the Tyrian lands. This allows for new blood to populate both lands and Punishes those unwilling to support a continued development of the story. If you are like the majority and purchase all the chapters then you are equal to all those that do the same. if you do not. well then too bad... I guess you don't get everything now do you? Both games have unique Elite skills. you only get 1 of them in your character build. both games have a few unique core skills. some of these uniques can be considered equivalent skills if you have both chapters, and potentially used together. So what? that just means you have less of something else if you foolishly double up on something. IN some cases the double up skills are not all that great. in others they are fantastic. especially running... Now ANYONE can do it. literally.. ANYONE. so no need to waste gold on buying a run from a person. just do it yourself. Oh and for you worthless farmers... yes Anet has graced you with a multitude of gifts as well. Not the least of which is a more powerful invincimonk build then has ever been seen before... so yes there is something for everyone... And now OMG People actually have to reconsider some stale and over used builds and try something new??? OMG the end of the world as we know it!!!

So let it be written... So let it be done.

/not signed..

Loviatar · Mar 27, 2006, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by =HT=Ingram

OMG the end of the world as we know it!!!

So let it be written... So let it be done.

/not signed..

not quite.

the true end will be when playing for fun is the reason to play

Manic Smile · Mar 27, 2006, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

If you don't have factions you're at severely large disadvantage for any form of competition anyway (no eviscerate, no dwaynas kiss to name a few) - double skills or no double skills won't change that at all. This idea is stupid, totally not signed

Yea I have to agree with that.

TopGun · Mar 27, 2006, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Adding another echo wouldn't provide you with the advantage double skills give you, because you need to cast echo first, which takes time and mana, on top of the mana you need for the skill. Doubles are fine; leave them.

On the other hand, this is just a way for ANet to say, "xxx more skills! Buy the expansion!" Yay advertising.

EternalTempest · Mar 27, 2006, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Gaile has even mention that only "select" skills will get duplicated (ingame chat) and if you see some, send them to tech support (implying some got duplicated that weren't suppose to).

Hella Good · Mar 28, 2006, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chadatog

I really don't understand all the griping. None of the skills are exact copies of another. Heck, V touch and V bite are in two completely different atibute lines. They are just similar skills with the same skill wording. The #'s affected by skill points, the atribute itself, the casting cost, the casting time, and the recharge all vary. Yes it gives you the same ability but they are not exactily the same.

The skills are EXACTLY and PRECISELY the same. And they are in the same attribute line... I don't know what it is u're smoking but I want some of that stuff.

antialias02 · Mar 28, 2006, 02:57 AM // 02:57

I hope that everyone understands here that the duplicated skills are *in addition* to the 300 unique skills that ANet has drummed up. Gaile confirmed them as a "kind of bonus."

They're not some Cop-Out that will detract. They're there in case you want to double up on a few skills... her words.

I don't really see the problem. It's not like they doubled up skills that will be completely and awfullly broken. On the contrary I'm sure some pretty interesting - but not broken - builds will come of it.

So what's everyone complaining about? You're still getting more than you paid for, and if you get Factions and already have Prophecies, you're just as well off as the next guy.

"OMG TWO ARCANE THEVERIES HURR HURR BROKEDED THE SKILLS SET ANET SUCKZ"

Lolz. Not at all.

SisterMercy · Mar 28, 2006, 03:07 AM // 03:07

You know, I saw a lot of similar skills, but no real identical ones. Each of the "duplicates" had some different nuances to them. But the fact of the matter is that we still have 8 skill slots. If we want to use 2 of them on similar skills, that limits the versatility of our characters. Otherwise, we can use the skill that has the preferable consequences (sacrifice if any, cost, recharge, etc) -- which is the advantage of owning both games.

However, there are some excellent innovative skills (Animate Flesh Golem), and some that may or may not need to be adjusted before they will be great (a possibly overpowered Churning Earth?).

I say the above with a tiny bit of disappointment, in that I have to wonder what happens when expansions 3, 4 and 5 come out. But before bashing Anet, look hard at how much can really be done in both a balanced PvE and balanced PvP situation, and let's see if we can come up with stronger but balanced ideas. I'm not saying that there aren't any, but that we need to respect where they're coming from.

So let's get back to the OP's intent and see those good balanced ideas. And I'm not talking about the legendary Restore Party:

Quote:

Restore Party: Cost: 5
Cast: 1/4 sec
Recharge: 10 sec.
Attribute: Tactics.
Description: Restore all members of your party to full health and energy, and create a 5 second shield against all melee, hexes and spells.

Dragonheart · Mar 28, 2006, 03:11 AM // 03:11

/definitly not signed

factions is a stand alone game, so think about the ppl that only have factions

Samueldg · Mar 28, 2006, 03:12 AM // 03:12

hmm so I can have veritas up constantly on my Minions... instead of having a 9 second window between recharge and expired duration...
hmm

NOT SIGNED

Hella Good · Mar 28, 2006, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by SisterMercy

You know, I saw a lot of similar skills, but no real identical ones. Each of the "duplicates" had some different nuances to them. But the fact of the matter is that we still have 8 skill slots. If we want to use 2 of them on similar skills, that limits the versatility of our characters. Otherwise, we can use the skill that has the preferable consequences (sacrifice if any, cost, recharge, etc) -- which is the advantage of owning both games.

However, there are some excellent innovative skills (Animate Flesh Golem), and some that may or may not need to be adjusted before they will be great (a possibly overpowered Churning Earth?).

I say the above with a tiny bit of disappointment, in that I have to wonder what happens when expansions 3, 4 and 5 come out. But before bashing Anet, look hard at how much can really be done in both a balanced PvE and balanced PvP situation, and let's see if we can come up with stronger but balanced ideas. I'm not saying that there aren't any, but that we need to respect where they're coming from.

So let's get back to the OP's intent and see those good balanced ideas. And I'm not talking about the legendary Restore Party:

I suggested earlier to make Revealed Hex and Revealed Enchantment as follows:

Revealed Hex: 5 nrg, 1 cast, 12 recharge

Shorten the duration of a hex on target ally by X% (I think I suggested a cap of 66%), gain Y% more energy than equal level Inspired Hex.

Revealed Enchantment: 10 nrg, 1 cast, 12 recharge

Shorten the duration of an enchantment on target foe by X%, gain Y% more energy than equal level Inspired Enchantment

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samueldg

hmm so I can have veritas up constantly on my Minions... instead of having a 9 second window between recharge and expired duration...
hmm

NOT SIGNED

There isn't a double for Verata's Sac....

Rebirther · Mar 28, 2006, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Provides an interesting edge to builds, adds potential, spices you pvp. having a replica of an existing skill will provide advantages as well as disadvantages.

/Not Signed

Thom · Mar 28, 2006, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

My only complaint is that many of the skills chosen to duplicate do not provide much added flexibility. It feels like they were chosen as skills that were 'safe' to duplicate, most of the ones they duplicated are either bad skills, or ones that aren't really limited by their recharges. So while there are a few cute things like double IHex, in general my response to the duped skills is 'if I thought these were any good before I would have used them when I only had one copy.'

I.E., I feel somewhat cheated by the dupes, because a new skill, even if it's terrible, is at least a new option. Giving us another copy of a non-impact skill just waters down the skill pool, it doesn't expand it at all.

Peace,
-CxE

I see the cop out argument, but I'm not ready to jump on the band wagon.

Two situations can justify this as a viable competitive direction of exploration:
1)Often you are already looking for skills with similar function. Having to skills with the exact same function can keep you in the same attribute line or profession creating a synergy. Inspire hex is firmly in this catagory possibly with some enchant removals.

2)Multiple copies of a skill can create a synergy you can build around. Arcane Theivery gets more intersting when you can steal a 4th of someones bar and if done correctly throw those skills back in the opponents face. One copy of theivery and the one thing is a bit stupid, but now one character can steal 2 skills (up to 4 with echos) so the idea of relying on recasting stolen spells is interesting. Similar arguments have been made for Vamp Touch.

Now sometimes multiple copies of crap is just a dung heap. A quarter of your skill bar devoted to multiple copies of a mediocre skill is normally painful. Dodge will remain mediocre no matter what they call it. The odds of creating a certain level of synergy with identical game text is good, but the minor synergy bonus is not normally enough to make a bad skill worth considering,

While it would be fun to see Anet take more risks, multiple copies of any competitive skill easily enters into the realm of broken. In testing you could use multiple copies of and some of the longer regen attacks were abused.

Anyone have a complete list of Dups? It would be nice to have for reference.

Weezer_Blue · Mar 28, 2006, 08:00 AM // 08:00

I disagree with your small minded and shortsighted petition, and would rather have the flexibility and new options of duplicate skills.

... also... quit making "petitions". I hate having to say "/notsigned". It's annoyingly apathetic.

I just wish they had chosen a couple better duplicates... Like... not Tigers Fury.

allience · Mar 28, 2006, 08:43 AM // 08:43

/signed

i'm quite pissed at having dupe skills! wvwn if it's good or bad skills, it's just cheap from anet's part. i mean why the hell didn't they make up a slightly different skill, like different recharge time or anything for the factions~!?

i really don't like the idea of paying for stupid duped skills coz the programmers had a sdden lack of immagination.

who the hell would use 2 heal other, or 2 divine healing... some dupes from other classes are more usefull for strategic play, but it still sux. a different skill would of been much more appreciated.

Nevin · Mar 28, 2006, 11:56 AM // 11:56

/not signed

Relnor · Mar 28, 2006, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by allience

/signed

i'm quite pissed at having dupe skills! wvwn if it's good or bad skills, it's just cheap from anet's part. i mean why the hell didn't they make up a slightly different skill, like different recharge time or anything for the factions~!?

i really don't like the idea of paying for stupid duped skills coz the programmers had a sdden lack of immagination.

who the hell would use 2 heal other, or 2 divine healing... some dupes from other classes are more usefull for strategic play, but it still sux. a different skill would of been much more appreciated.

I love when people post with out reading any of the arguments...this has been discussed before...

Quote:

Originally Posted by antialias02

I hope that everyone understands here that the duplicated skills are *in addition* to the 300 unique skills that ANet has drummed up. Gaile confirmed them as a "kind of bonus."

They're not some Cop-Out that will detract. They're there in case you want to double up on a few skills... her words.

I don't really see the problem. It's not like they doubled up skills that will be completely and awfullly broken. On the contrary I'm sure some pretty interesting - but not broken - builds will come of it.

So what's everyone complaining about? You're still getting more than you paid for, and if you get Factions and already have Prophecies, you're just as well off as the next guy.

"OMG TWO ARCANE THEVERIES HURR HURR BROKEDED THE SKILLS SET ANET SUCKZ"

Lolz. Not at all.

/not signed because I have yet to see an argument for this not get shot down

Nightwish · Mar 28, 2006, 01:33 PM // 13:33

I do not consider the skill duplication a cheap nor uncreative move on Anet's part.

However, for me, the duplicate skills just distort the unique skill set image in my mind. I have always like the idea of 8 different skills on everyone's skillbar.

The longer recharge than duration for Echo/Arcane Echo, imo, is to apply a slight penalty for having a duplicate skill on our skillbar, which seems fair enough to me. Now the skill duplication seems to eliminate that "catch".

At the moment, the skill duplication is just for a few, so I will stand on the fence for now.